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This comment from MoneyMagnet; 'The sun will rise and the earth will turn regardless of the state of any economy.' is a worry in itself...... Unfortunately I don't think so if the whole world…

This comment from MoneyMagnet;

'The sun will rise and the earth will turn regardless of the state of any economy.' is a worry in itself......

Unfortunately I don't think so if the whole world doesn't make an effort in some small or large part whatever any individual or group can do will help as long as we all make an effort. You know I watched a doco on TV a while back about the ocean's east west conveyor as I remember it was called. It said that it had slowed down so much over time that we were in far greater advanced position than the scientists had calculated, the worst part being if it stops that's it it's all over, money or no money - welcome to the Ice age in an instant. It won't destroy the world as such but the world will become inhabitable for human life. Makes one think why the dinosaurs are extinct doesn't it?

So although it is a worry about the global situation there are more worrying things that are happening in the scene. I just think it is not fully explained because of the mass hysteria it would cause. Just my 2 cents worth.

Honour.

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Comment by Honour on November 19, 2008 at 11:13am: Yes agreed anything could and will happen. Just as well we don't know what is around the corner isn't it!

Comment by Bandwidth on November 19, 2008 at 10:47am: Hello Honour

I am not advocating prayer.

Sticking the head in the sand has never been an attituded I would take

I am probably saying similar things to what you are suggesting.

What I am saying is if we worry about big things that are almost impossible to fix, rather than doing the small things we can do around us, then we will not achieve very much at all.

I fully agree with your point about man, not being able to change nature. I feel it is the height of arrogance to believe we have that much power.

There are examples of where nature cleans up the mess we create, such as a lot of the damage caused by the Exxon Valdas disaster was cleaned up by a bacteria.

Nature also cleans up it's own mess, for example the crown of thorns starfish cleans up cancerous areas of coral.

BTW, from what I have read, the "global warming theory" is just that, a theory and where we should always be aware of our responsiblities and actions I feel we can become blinded by a theory that becomes taken as fact.

One thing to think about is that we do not know the side effects of using other fuel sources, as we did not know the side effects of carbon based fuels, in the past.

If we convert water to gas then we use the hydrogen as a fuel and introduce more oxygen into the atmosphere, what effect does that have. Think about a fire storm in an oxygen rich atmosphere.

How much of the forest is being cleared to plant the crops necessary to produce "ECO-FUELS"

We as a society have more and more ways of measuring things but what we do not have is the historical information to fully understand the cycles. I feel we need to keep in mind that a lot of what we read is theory, sensationalised for the masses and often to create a need for further funding.

Also there is no guarantee the the history will repeat itself. Our existence could be one small tick in a universal time frame

This is a debate that could and will go on forever because anything "COULD" happen.

Only time and nature will reveal the answers.

Comment by Honour on November 19, 2008 at 9:04am: Hi Bandwidth

1. Praying is good - I'm a firm believer in that but sticking ones head in the sand and getting complacent is not the answer (with all due respect I am not saying you are advocating this) and yes I agree it's easy to calculate worst case scenario but repeatedly human beings are being shown the affects of greed, selfishness and the (what I call) me me me syndrome. I just wish everyone would give some respect to where they live and how they can do their bit to 'save the environment'.

Yes your examples are right but these examples are something that could happen, the ocean conveyor is something that IS happening right now.

The Conveyor is simply a current of water which flows through the oceans of the world in a continuous flow and may take a 1000 years to complete its cycle. The current when heading south through the Atlantic is cold and runs deep continuing through the southern oceans just north of Antartica and south of Australia before heading northward through the Pacific. As it continues to the northern parts of the Pacific the current warms up and rises to nearer the surface it then turns southwards and heads west past Indonesia, through the Indian Ocean to round the Cape and head back up the Atlantic. When it reaches east of Greenland, and already cooling, the Conveyor meets the melting ice cap waters, it is these cold waters which keep the Conveyor operating. If there is no ice cap because of global warming, and the ice cap is now fast disappearing, then there will be no cold water to form the lower circulating channel southwards of the Conveyor.

The consequences of a breakdown of the Conveyor are horrendous, the worst case scenario would be another ICE AGE which could happen within 2-3years of the Conveyor malfunctioning. A lesser harrowing scenario would be a "little ice age" lasting perhaps a couple of centuries which would lead to extremely harsh winters, draught, desertification and crop failure.

A simple geographical comparism of the latitude of Alaska and the permafrost locked regions of northern Canada and central Siberia show them to be similar to most of Europe and Scandinavia, yet Europe 's climate is more similar to that of North America (whose eastern seaboard would be seriously affected too). Why so? Simple, the Gulf Stream which is a part of the Conveyor and which brings that warmer climate to Scandinavia and Europe, would not exist and thus we would be consigned to those other much, much colder climatic conditions.

Do not imagine that these flows can be altered by man as the statistics are stupendous. With a flow rate of only 10cm per second there is a moving mass of water equivalent to 100 Amazon rivers, with an average 30million cu ft of water entering the system every second. If this flow is upset the results will be felt within as short a period as 2-3years.

When you consider the minute limitations of man 's control over nature you realize that it is nature that is in charge of planet Earth and quite simply we have to comply with nature and not the other way around.

Our carbon gas emissions from factories and motors cannot be sustained and for our existence MUST be reduced, yet what do we do? We go out and cut down the very forests that can absorb 25% of all carbon dioxide produced and which has a profound effect on global warming.

As individuals we can cast our votes for politicians to hopefully change their policies to be more eco-friendly but do not hold your breath there; or we can take positive action ourselves with our cars and not emit as much as 3.5 tons of CO2 per individual car per annum by installing a water to gas fuel conversion system which dramatically reduces carbon gas emissions thus reducing global warming and helping to save the environment.

.......which brings to mind 'God helps those who help themselves'.......

food for thought isn't it?

Comment by Bandwidth on November 19, 2008 at 8:06am: Hello Honour

Nature has a multitude of ways of ways of chaning the world, as we know it.

Examples are.

One really decent sun flare and our ozone layer would vanish then we are ash.

A really decent volcanic action venting a large ash cloud, blocking the sun for an extended period

Etc Etc.

I agree that we all need to contribute, it is our bligation in life. What we have to be carefull is that we need to remeber the serenity prayer "Give me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, The courage to change the things I can and the wisdom to know the difference.

BTW it is easy to calculate the worst case conditions and it makes good press